The new 50MP sensor inside the Canon EOS 5Ds camera is not made by Sony

Canon-EOS-5Ds-50MP-camera-sensor-not-produced-by-Sony
Prior to the Canon EOS 5Ds announcement, several websites reported that the new 50MP sensor was developed with/by Sony. Apparently this is not the case - the sensor was developed and produced "completely in-house" by Canon. Here is the quote from Chuck Westfall:

Despite some rumors to the contrary, Westfall said the 50.6MP CMOS sensors in the 5DS and 5DS R are developed and produced by Canon. When asked whether they were created in collaboration with Sony as some rumors indicated, Westfall responded by saying: “Absolutely not. The sensors were developed completely in-house, by Canon.”

The new 50MP sensor offers no dynamic range improvements over the previous 5D Mark III sensor:

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  • outkasted

    Suuuuuuuure they were’nt…

    • usuck

      you realise that canon is the prime manufacturer for all the highest definition sensors used in space observation ?

      Actually no, because you have no clue.

      • sexyjon

        That explains why they never find anything interesting in space.

        • Flavio

          LOL!

          • TheInconvenientRuth

            Ohhh… the buuuurrrnnnnn…..

      • (◕‿◕✿)

        sexyjon wrecked you pretty good there.

        Anyway, you need to make the distinction between manufacturer and designer. Even if Canon designed the sensor, the manufacturer would still be someone like Sony, since Sony owns semiconductor fabs that produce these things. As far as I’m aware Canon does not own any such fabs.
        Designer =/ Manufacturer

    • Neopulse

      When you buy one, you can break it open and look at the sensor to see if it says Sony on it. Then you can sleep better at night.

  • booh

    That’s sweet news cause now the 50mp-ish sensor in the coming Sony a9 can make its way into the D8x0 with no trouble.

    • Cesar Sales

      Which is great because nikon always gets better quality out of Sony’s sensors than Sony does.

      • Frank

        And Pentax always gets better quality out of Sony’s sensors than Nikon does 😉

        • bas076

          And both have color rendering problems after tricks with pushing DR and NR.

        • Cesar Sales

          Really? Got some source for that? Or is it anecdotal?

  • Neopulse

    I can’t help, but notice this is a dumb down sensor. It hasn’t changed much at all since the 5D Mark III except the MP count. The DR is the same including the AF system (amongst other things) and they are charging more.

    Right now the 5D Mark III is going for $2549 after the rebate. I think it’s worth saving the extra $1200-$1400 bucks for something else.

    • Spy Black

      Besides bragging rights, the main use of this camera will be studio, landscape and, to a lesser degree, sports photography (where cropping will be an asset). Out of these, I think the most important front will be the studio, where it will compete with the Phase One cameras. While the Phase One cameras will have far greater dynamic range, at base ISO the Canon will easily make comparable images. The medium format camera manufacturers are the ones who stand the most to lose from this camera

      • I’m not a sports photographer, but I’m fairly sure most of them don’t have the luxury of cropping before sending off their photos. They have to get it right in the camera.

        • Sports shooter here -yeah you pretty much have to nail the shot with a tighter crop first time round. This is imperative especially when shooting high volume as who has the time to crop their shots?

          • Spy Black

            Neither one of you are obviously not art directors. 🙂

          • Ken Elliott

            SB> “Neither one of you are obviously not art directors.”

            Double negative? You just said both were art directors. 😀

          • Spy Black

            Ooops! You’re correct. Fixed. Thanks.

            Capt. Morgan and Coke…

          • Randy Stiefer

            guess you didn’t read the spec’s. Camera comes with 1.3x and 1.6x croup mode. So you slap that 70-200 on their then with a setting change you can get out to 260 or 320 w/o taking the lens off.

          • Yeah you can do that no doubt, but why don’t you just get closer to the action?
            Also it’s a FoV change not an actual focal length change.

            Moreover shooting in anything but full sized RAW (for those times that you do), leads to clipping, reduced DR and other issues.

            Go ahead buy one for that primary use of using it for sports. Just don’t get grumpy at me when you miss the shot because the subject came to close too fast or it fell outside the crop framing area…

      • I’m not sure. MF is not always about megapixels. I’m not an MF shooter, but I know a couple of photographers who use MF. We discuss gear from time to time. They’re telling me most of their clients actually don’t need the megapixels considering their output format.

        They have an MF option on their “menu” as their top-end service for “distinguished” clients (marketing talk) with a huge surcharge to cover renting/investment costs (one rents MF for these, another friend of mine owns a Hassy system). It’s more of a “prestige” option for most.

        The MF market is already a tiny niche compared to FF (which is a small niche compared to APS-C). It’s only a fraction of this tiny niche that actually needs the megapixels. Simply put, this camera will hardly cause any headache in the MF market.

      • sickheadache

        Spy Black…well it is known that Canon’s cameras here ….are Not going to be released in June…Giving plenty of time for Sony and Nikon to release their high end MP New Cameras..A7rll or A9/…Nikon’s D900? or D860…and it will be 54mp…only a small guess there. Canon may have announced this…but they will not be the first to the consumers.

    • Yawn

      The dumbest thing here is your comment. Envy is ugly.

      • Neopulse

        What envy? Did you even read what I wrote? I said it was better getting a 5D Mark III for the price it is at now. I wasn’t bashing anything dumbass.

        • Yawn

          Getting rude now? That’s no good, ask your dad.

          • Neopulse

            Great, another troll that needs to be banned.

          • Yawn

            You have a sad life, dumbass.

          • Neopulse

            Great, another troll that needs to be banned.

    • Drown the Shills

      And how did you notice that? Have you tested it? How exactly didn’t it stand up to your brick walls?

      • Neopulse

        No, the company directly says it has the same sensor features as the current 5D Mark III just it has more resolution (well also 5fps if you want to nitpick). Same body, same DR, same, same….
        To me it just isn’t worth the extra chunk of cash. And it also breaks in the same way against a brick wall as the 5D Mark III since it uses the same body.

  • Neopulse

    http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/again-wild-rumors-about-sony-canon-sensor-partnership/

    On this website it mentions that they produced the sensor even though Canon designed it.

    “[…] the sensor is not designed by Sony – it is in fact designed entirely by Canon. It is true that Sony is manufacturing the sensors but they are not the ones who designed it, Canon is simply leveraging the manufacturing capabilities of Sony to get the volume of sensors needed to get these cameras to the market. The sensors used in these cameras are exclusive to Canon […]”

    • Yes, because many rumors website will post every BS they found online.

      • Neopulse

        Glad you cleared that up. it was kind of annoying the way things are posted on the site.

        • bas076

          And what it will give you in that hypoesthetic A7rII?
          How may lenses you will use with it? 55/1.8Z? Thats it?…May be future 90/2.8 Macro G…Big amount…

          • Neopulse

            Plan to use manual F-Mount lenses on it also. Like the Zeiss 85mm f/1.4 and perhaps 135mm f/1.8 with adapter (not bought yet though). The 90mm macro I’m not so keen on getting. Waiting for the 85mm f/1.8 that they will most likely make since it doesn’t compete directly with their A-Mount 85mm f/1.4.

  • a-traveler

    The Administrator @ Sony Alpha Rumors dot com seems to have a self esteem problem. Every new camera announced by anyone ALWAYS has a Sony sensor … until he’s proven wrong. Meh!

    So from now on this is the ONLY rumor site I’ll read.

    • which is why I do not recycle every rumors that shows up online like many other websites

      • Eric Calabros

        Which is why you’re our Saint Peter 🙂

        • not a saint really, I have messed up on numerous occasions 🙂

          • Neopulse

            Haven’t we all :-S

    • Cinekpol

      Guy leading SAR went down the hill in last 3 years or so. Back in a day his stuff was both: more trustworthy and less sensationalist.

      • In their defense this place gets very Nikon-biased every now and then.

        • guilty as charged, but just sometimes 🙂

    • bakanecko

      it’s click bait, and it’s work.

      • It also attracts the wrong crowd, measurbators and gearheads, making their rumour site unreadable.

    • pyktures

      SAR guy = propaganda guy
      PRumors guy = real news guy. goooooo PRumors!

  • sickheadache

    Oh wow…this is freaking great news. I am so glad Sony is NOT providing Canon with this sensor…Sony has always made better sensors that Canon. I can’t wait till this Clod Hopper from Canon comes out and gets a proper review from DXO MARK and we see how crummy once again Canon sensor is…Early test so far…Not even more Dynamic Range as their 3 year old 5D marklll This is excellent news…and guess what…

    No Sick headache..I feel Great!

    • usuck

      u obv have no clue talking about dr in digital imaging for reflex in 2015
      u want nice dr ? go shoot ana or buy medium format sensors
      other wise all sensors are pretty much the same

      otherwise u can use ps like anybody else

      • sickheadache

        usuck…you got that right. fail.

      • Noor

        See, the D810 already has a DR larger than a PhaseOne Medium format camera, so…. yeah.

    • In other words, it is unfortunate we’ll have to continue to hear how DR, low ISO performance, and everything else that Nikon/Sony sensors do very well is absolutely irrelevant. It would have been wonderful to see Canon’s implementation of the Sony sensor, particularly if they could have eked out a bit more DR, low light sensitivity, FPS, etc.

      • We can’t win either way, I suspect. The day that Canon does a 5D mkIV that has insane DR, maybe even more than the D810 or something, …it’ll immediately switch to Canon fans thumbing their noses at Nikon users.

        But, realistically speaking, let’s be honest: 90% of the photographers out there on both sides of this argument would probably be just fine with a 12-20 megapixel sensor that had just ~12 stops of DR and clean ISO 3200. For the vast majority, beyond those limits it’s just armchair chitchat, bickering, or flame-warring.

        Meanwhile, I’m off to the desert for more bizarre envelope-pushing such as this: 😛 http://www.slrlounge.com/nikon-df-canon-6d-creating-drivelapse-timelapse-sequence/

        • I think you’re 100% right. This camera is going to serve its niche very well, and if the photographer likes it, that’s great.

          In addition, mirrorless cameras make more sense for more people. Before the mirrorless brigade, DSLRs were the only choice for decent, hand-held, digital cameras. But now, not so much.

          • Cinekpol

            Yea, now we have large sensor compacts – and that’s the type of camera that makes sense for most people, not mirrorless. Most of people buying ILCs never go beyond the kit lens, so compact with large sensor is universally better option unless someone wants TTL OVF – in which case DSLRs got them covered.

          • Dmitry Anisimov

            But DSLRs with non-removable lenses existed…

        • Dmitry Anisimov

          And 90% of people could go without cameras at all….

    • fjfjjj

      Thank goodness! I was afraid Canon might ruin the party. Now we can all go back to admiring our D810’s and stroking ourselves.

    • Yawn

      Are you an experienced photographer?

      • sickheadache

        Dear lil yawn! do you need something? or you here to bust some chops! quick lil yawnie statements. how nice.

        • Neopulse

          He’s been doing that so far on this proxy account he/she made.

          • Yawn

            Love your anger ladies. Keep it coming. The fact stays: you are clueless keyboard warriors, with nothing to say or pictures to show. You are useless.

    • Learn the relationship between dr and resolution before you go telling people your opinions.

    • Yawn

      Good, are you going to learn punctuation now?

  • doge

    That explains why it’s dynamic range is garbage.

    • Yawn

      Have you tested it? Do you get paid to write this junk? Are you smarter than your avatar looks?

  • fjfjjj

    The 5Ds sample images don’t show much in the way of smooth chroma gradations. Canon shows off solid-color fabrics and flowers, faces covered in foundation makeup, subjects strongly affected by the color of illumination, etc. The resolution is a huge leap, but (from what I’ve seen so far) the quality of the data hasn’t taken a leap. I am more impressed by cameras that have rich resolution of chroma, but that’s just me.

    • Eric Calabros

      What was aweseome about the launch?

      • fjfjjj

        Canon released materials that spoke to serious photographers on the level, with substance, about the product. Okay, that doesn’t really qualify for “awesome” but I’m accustomed to Nikon’s fluff.

    • Les

      I love how all the fanboys and girls have already made up their minds about these two cameras, based on a couple of jpegs!

      I’m not even going to give a preliminary opinion until my favourite software supports the RAWs. I do have a hunch that this will appeal to those who already like Canon’s colour rendition, especially their skin tones.

      • fjfjjj

        Right, and which company am I a fangirl of?

        • mikeswitz

          Leica?

    • Yawn

      Envy + ignorance = quoting dxocrap.

      • Yeah, I envy Canon’s dynamic range, that’s it. 😉

        • You gotta learn what the DR measurements mean.

          Also call yourself “Night Landscapes” instead because you people are a disgrace to real astrophotographers who actually know how things work.

          • Hey, you found another one of my comments to be displeased with! I feel like I’m in a “Where’s Waldo” book.

            Learn what the DR measurements mean? They mean that Canon’s sensor technology hasn’t been able to place more than ONE camera (A random P&S compact, at that) in the top HUNDRED tested sensors.

            Unless you’re one of the folks who believes that somehow DXO has fudged over one hundred results, just because they have a vendetta against Canon.

            I’m not just yammering and measurebating from an armchair here. I’ve probably worked with more Canon CR2 files than Nikon NEF files in my career, and probably hundreds of thousands of each. Canon dynamic range, while certainly acceptable for most applications, falls far behind other sensor technology.

          • DXO doesn’t fudge the results but people who don’t understand the science and math behind DxO measurements fudge themselves. DxO’s fault is in keeping quiet about what their tests don’t say.

            Have you ever read anywhere on DxO’s site about the limitations of their measurements? No… they’re not scientific nor credible. If you were a scientist or a mathematician you’d get it.

          • We could go back and forth about this forever, but it appears you’ll never actually come out and say the thing you’re implying each time you disagree with me about what DXO results indicate…

            So, are you saying that Canon sensors are NOT 2-3 stops behind the rest of the market with respect to DR? Because if you’re simply picking on someone who thinks DXO results are worth considering, but you actually do know that Canon sensors have utter rubbish for shadows, (and not enough highlight recovery to make up for it) …then I lament your pointless need to argue with others.

            Just come right out and say what you think is the truth, instead of just going around saying “you’re wrong!” all the time.

          • “We could go back and forth about this forever”

            Not so had you studied computational image processing or maths. And that’s why i will leave it at that.

          • Just as I thought, no answer to the real question. Because you know that regardless of where I get my notions, whether it be some site you think is run by crackpots, or real-world experience, …the fact remains that Chuck Westfall is still an idiot if he thinks he can proudly state that the 5DS’ dynamic range is the same as the 5D mk3.

          • No… just don’t have the time to teach basics to arrogant noobs

          • Clearly, judging by the amount of time you’ve invested in the art form of disagreeing with arrogant noobs without actually making a point.

            Tell you what, I’ll stop wasting your time and go learn everything “basic” there is to know about why DXO is crap, …then I’ll let you know if I magically get more DR out of the thousands of CR2 files I process every week, compared to the thousands of NEF files. Meanwhile, keep telling yourself the grass is green enough.

          • Read my reply to bas076. Pick up whatever you can from it.

          • bas076

            You mean nothing? Expectable…

          • true

            guys, just put that guy in ignore. He seems to be trolling other rumor sites as well.

          • OK, I get that DXO numbers mean next to nothing in the real world. In fact I think their overall rankings for both lenses and sensors are downright worthless, misleading even, and their methods of normalization further damage the numbers’ usefulness.

            That’s why my original post here used a visual graph in which numbers were hard to discern, but the visual representation should still be undeniably eye-opening to any Canon sensor engineer.

            I don’t think anybody could look at that GIF and just shrug it off as a fluke or an irrelevant lab result, least of all Canon.

          • You do realise that visualisation was done using numbers calculated with a flawed methodology right? Not sure if you figured but that makes the visualisation not any better either. Sigh. ..can’t believe i had to explain what i just did.

          • So if the methodology is flawed, but NOT actually fudged, (your words) …doesn’t that still mean Canon should at least take note, and work on dynamic range at least half as much as they’ve just “worked on” megapixels?

          • Did you really just say what you just said? Do you even know what “methodology” means in this context? We’re talking about science here… not interpretive dance.

          • And, thanks for the personal insult, too.

          • No, really… it’s not astrophotography… it’s landscapes done at night. Astrophotography is a very scientific field… you can take it as a compliment.

          • bas076

            So what exactly the problem DXO have with measurements? I was more then 4 years ATE developer in Motorola, I will understand your answer.

          • With whatever you have done if you still need to ask someone else, i don’t think there’s much use in explaining.

            In summary, DxO’s dr measurements can be tricked in to showing large results if the raw data is normalised. Their portrait/depth measurement is better… however none of these numbers make sense unless resolution is normalised… which is not done properly.

            I lost the little respect i had for that site when they introduced megapixel ratings for lenses. It’s really a site for complete noobs who worship numbers without understanding them.

          • bas076

            What I did without your explanations not relevant for you now because you asking such a question. If it was relevant you didn’t ask.

            Now back to subject. As somebody that participated
            not only in ATE development process but writing ISO compliance documents I will ask next question. What wrong with normalizing if it is clearly declaring as part of test procedure? Where it is against the declaration of “scientific experiment”? What is wrong in normmalizing noise test to 8Mp print, lens testing to PMp of “ideal” Bayer matrix and so on?

          • Nevermind

            genotypewriter, could you answer
            base076’s questions below? Since you are a “scientist” by your claim, you
            should be able to respond to his question without deviating from the topic. I look
            forward to hear your answer

          • I did. Have a look. And it’s not my obligation to give randoms on the net the education they didn’t have. Or is it somehow?

          • orpickanamo

            Maybe it is. Because… “With great intellectual power comes great intellectual responsibility”?
            Or something.

          • bas076

            Ask him ones more about what resolution normalization he is talking about. Person even
            can’t explain himself in standards of initial definitions for experiment and you are asking him about responsibility.

            There are righteous for which put them as villains. King Solomon.

          • Not bad actually. ..

          • orpickanamo

            And with great pretentious ignorance comes great ostentatious arrogance.

          • bas076

            You have no obligation even to answer at all but if you are saying
            something about education and science you obligated to be an educated one and understated
            the meaning of “scientific experiment” one. And if you are the one, there is no
            big trouble to explain why DXO is missing something in craterous of scientific
            experiment”. And if you can’t do it shortly in populist manner it means you
            also can’t do it in deep scientific manner too. Those two words that you throw
            there is not even populist explanation it is something about nothing.

          • Rofl who are you? You should be thanking me for pointing out what i have pointed out so far.

            This is exactly why i don’t care to explain things sometimes because people are ungrateful and they think it’s someone else’s duty to teach them things. Next they’ll want me to father their children too lol

            And no… you people can go learn on your own but i doubt anything good will come out of it lol

          • bas076

            I

            Rolf?…You know that laugh without reason is the first pointer to human stupidity? No? So it is already one hole in your education.

            Who am I? I am photo hobbyist that sometimes reading photo rumors and news and I am also more educated and experienced in h/w and s/w than you. And for me reading ones more and ones more ”educated” zeros that writing nonsense without any explanations why they are writing all that shit a little bit annoying. It is
            possible to preserve silence but zeros always trying to harm people that thinking and asking questions. And from that point of view I gave you
            possibility to explain your position and to clarify things in discussion. This is the usual way for educated people to avoid mistakes or misunderstandings. But you can’t.

            So stop crying about somebody’s education level and possibilities to learn. Learn to first of all to be somebody different from zeros that publishing tons of garbage in different internet resources. You show with explanations why 400/4 DO is good lens for the price was not good enough,
            you need another round of self sustain declaration, already without explanations. I think you just need to buy another system and tens of lenses to the existing ones to make everybody understand that you don’t need to explain
            yourself. You just have no time between lenses purchasing. ;):)

          • Learn to form an argument. You don’t sound educated.

            400/4 DO? Where the hell did that come from?

      • markdstump

        Y,

        You’re crying now, but wait till DXoMark looks at the 5Ds, and gives it an 89, you and you’re kind will scream bloody murder!

        • PVC

          That didn’t happen.

          • markdstump

            Yes, in my flippancy I was off by two points…
            I’m happy for present and future Canon users…it is, after all, a step in the right direction.

  • Joe Geske

    Yes, DR isn’t everything, and Yes, as a Nikon user we need to stop screaming about how awesome our sensors are all of the time…… but….. In a 50mp camera squarely marketed at landscape, studio, fashion, and astrophotography dynamic range is huge. Good job Canon, I was kind of worried for nikon for just a minute. Sure would have been nice to have been able to pair this with a 17TSE though.

    • true

      DR is very important though. You can get pretty good HDR-ish pictures (without going overboard) if the camera has very good DR

  • Guest

    you can say all digital camera sensors are made by SONY. Even Nikon-Pentax-Canon-Olympus same sensors made from Sony. That is why image quality look all similar and same. Well, I liked Kodak sensor lot better….

    • Antonio

      It is not that simple…Sony may manufacturer the sensors but not all sensors are born equal…

  • There is absolutely nothing wrong with this camera. But 50Mpx is only about 25% more resolution than 36Mpx and about 50% more than 24Mpx.

    Now, if there is not improvement in DR, perhaps there is no compelling reason for non-Canon users to buy this camera.

    • Eric Calabros

      They must be idiot if think this will bring non-Canon users to their camp. They just want to stop current Canon users to switch.
      Btw, it has 18% more linear resolution, not 25

  • TinusVerdino

    It was not made by me either.

  • MB

    So now we wait for Nikon to release 72Mpix camera with sensor not entirely conceived by Sony …

  • J. Andrews

    .. and that’s why the sensor sucks, the dynamic range sucks, the rolling shutter issue seems to be a total disaster from the earlier reports out, the ISO range sucks.. sure, it’s not a Sony sensor because they are the only name in town making good sensors. Good luck for Canon.. they have got to be out of their minds..

  • markdstump

    I’m happy for Canon users. I’m not convinced this will be the best 35mm for landscapes (looking at the sample images), but either way it ought to be a nice addition for Canonites.

    Indoors, I’d expect the anti-flicker function to be a great thing.

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