Rumors: full frame Sony NEX mirrorless camera now coming in October

Sony-full-frame-sensor
The Sony full frame mirrorless camera has been rumored for a while and the potential release date has been moving back and forth, but now it seems that everything is set for an October announcement. So what do we know about the first modern full frame mirrorless camera (after the digital Leica M)? Here is the list:

  • The full frame Sony mirrorless camera will be based on the NEX-7, but it will be larger.
  • Two full frame mirrorless cameras will be announced: one in October, the other one few months later.
  • Expected full frame Zeiss FE lenses to be announced: 35mm f/2.8 (already leaked), 55mm f/1.8 and most likely a 85mm f/1.8.
  • The camera body will be priced around $3,000 and should be in stock before the end of the year.
  • The new full frame NEX will be on display during the PhotoPlus show in New York at the end of October.

Via Photoclubalpha

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  • 1r1ph

    hm…. seems pointless to me but thats my opinion. Might be interesting to people with a HUGE wallet because in my experience professionals tend to get leica, canon, nikon, the usual suspects. However, i think the negatives exceed the pos. when it come to the question ff or not. In cameras that small and with limited internal electronics, i dont see why ff.

    its just…. people who will get that are “automatic mode, if i clikc there should be a good picture”…. i miss the old days when taking a photo was seen to require skill -.-

    facebook and twitter are flooded with shit.

    I feel its like a ferrari engine in a volkswagen…. but hey if u like it :)

    • Anonymous

      Hmmm, sounds to me like you are rather envious of a compact FF system and trying to justify why you shouldn’t get it because you have already invested in a different system. FF is just another tool, and a compact FF in the hands of capable photographer is a welcome addition into the mirrorless world. I’m not sure how on Earth you came to the conclusion of associating FF with automatic modes, skill, facebook, twitter and cars…

      • plan3s

        You should be able to differ a troll just after he says “its just…. people who will get that are “automatic mode, if i clikc there should be a good picture”…. i miss the old days when taking a photo was seen to require skill -.-”

        It’s their most common argument.

        • Photo-Jack

          Some of the arguments are pretty valid even if that goes beyond your comprehension

    • troll detector

      Clearly a troll

    • SEQLAR

      Everyone has their own needs. I’m waiting for the release because while I can’t afford Leica M I might be able to afford his camera. I want a small full frame camera for everyday use so I no longer have to drag my giant DSLR with me every time I leave my house.

    • Nishi Drew

      Vintage cameras didn’t require more skill than modern ones in getting a good photo, it was just more tedious and time consuming with the adjustments and film.
      Understanding exposure and keeping the shot in focus is 101, and sure, few have trouble with that using a modern camera with the magical full auto modes. But there were terrible photos before just as there are today; have you looked through a family album? Old collection of photos in general? If the shots aren’t cherished for their memories then most likely a majority of photos there are FB/Twitter quality as well.

      And as for cars, how many Ferrari owners are skilled drivers? Same, if a person can afford a nice camera then that’s their enjoyment, even if they don’t understanding photography at all

      • Photo-Jack

        True, but you miss to consider the mass effect! While earlier photographers were well-received today you have to fight with a lot of forbiddances and suspects showing up wit a camera.And going out for a known sight your patience is put to test, waiting until all the Me-In-Front-Offs are out of the way.

  • chylld

    can’t wait!! i have a noktor 50mm T0.95 cine LM-mount just itching for an FF body…

    • longzoom

      if rumor of its curved sensor is true, you won’t be able to use your Noktor, sorry…

  • markz

    if it takes M or LTM via an adaptor (any reason why wont?) I’ll be very interested in this. Though I won’t be jumping on it straight away (wait for prices to drop or used units to hit the market or for a lower level unit to be introduced).

    • Cinekpol

      Even if it can – no guarantee it will be useful (see: NEX7).

  • Lee

    If the price is right, this will be good news for PENTAX users long lust to use their K-mount FF glass on a FF body… if the price is right….

    • Zos Xavius

      Pentax users have been shooting their glass on canon full frames for some time now. Nothing new here.

  • Tom

    Why $3000 for body only? The RX1R is $2800 and that is with a lens, a good lens. Why such a premium?

    • http://photorumors.com/ PhotoRumors

      Because they are the first with a full frame mirrorless body and pretty much have no competition. They probably invested a lot of money in that project and need to price the camera accordingly. We do not know any of the specs yet, they may use some new special sensor.

      • longzoom

        I somehow believe they will use special sensor, to push us buy the dedicated lenses only!

      • hexx

        “Because they are the first with a full frame mirrorless body”

        HELLO!! LEICA IS HERE!!!

        • Pat Mann

          Sony coming out at half the price and people are still complaining that it’s too expensive. Golly, costs as much as a D800e. Certainly that’s way too expensive for a full-frame camera. It should be less than a D600, since there’s no mirror or all that mechanical stuff in there. And we don’t even know the specs yet.
          Whatever they can get for it – that’s how resources get allocated in a free market economy. To the innovator goes the ability to get those first purchasers for whom money is no object. No sense undercutting the competition – they know they’re coming anyway – might as well get what they can out of it while it’s still a bargain compared to Leica.
          Then when Nikon and Canon go full frame mirrorless, which they will ultimately have to to stay in business, and price competition sets in, the rest of us have a chance.

          • hexx

            replied to wrong person?

          • anonymous

            Just a spike in the flow of new products. Nothing really new here, and I’m done buying for a couple years or so. I’ll look at Rev. 2 Sony.

        • http://photorumors.com/ PhotoRumors

          I was talking about a modern camera body – see my original blog post.

        • kassim

          True, but how much they charge for their cameras?

        • http://genotypewritings.blogspot.com/ genotypewriter

          Even if the FF Nex is just a FF sensor behind an E mount, it’s still quite a different system to Leica M. With requirements like AF, they need to make sure that, if not at first, at least some day they can make the AF (including on-sensor PD) work well enough with wide angle lenses. They also need to sell new FE lenses… Leica didn’t have that problem with their digital Ms because people were already hooked on to their system and probably even had some lenses from the film days. So Sony needs to develop things from scratch and even consider the long term potential of the system.

          Also we don’t know what else is there. If this whole in-body stabilisation is there, Sony’s going to use it to justify the costs.

        • http://www.shinyphoto.co.uk/ Tim

          Where? On your shelf while the Nikon goes out to take the photos? ;^)

    • Lee

      Sony doesn’t care about their customers or have a sense of right and wrong. They will charge whatever they think they can sell it for and 10 months from now release an “s” version containing updates that could have been provided as a free firmware update.

      • Sahaja

        That’s what large corporations do. Nikon is no different.

        Do you get new features on your car with free firmware updates?

    • johnny

      I suspect there will be a price cut on RX1R, perhaps SONY relist it for $2000. This camera is overpriced.

      • saywhatuwill

        I would buy it 5 seconds after it drops to $2000!

      • kassim

        Maybe, with a broken lens. Sort of body only price. RX-1 lens is great. Great FF sensor + great fast lens.. it’s actually a bargain.

      • Ludwig Gerhardt

        The price of RX1 is correct, look what a Zeiss FF lens 35/1.8 costs, and you’ll find out that in RX1, you get a body for free. Now, what makes the RX1 still remain the top, is the small size. With modern comando pants, you put it in the side pocket of your legs and you go. Even in bigger jeans pockets it fits, and it is unbeatable in IQ. You need a lens of 6 times that price at Leica to compete with it.

    • Sahaja

      The RX1 (and RX100) proved Sony can charge a premium price ~ if they get the camera right.

      • MJr

        Makes sense, as it actually is a premium product anyway.

      • Ludwig Gerhardt

        RX1 has a 35mm 1.8 Zeiss lens, and that lens needed a special development for this camera, what made that lens very expensive. Now, if you look how much you pay a Zeiss quality lens for FF in 35/1.8, the RX1 camera body was a present, free of payment, with the lot. If now, someone tells me what in this world makes a FF nex body worth 3000$, then I am willed to buy it. A FF NEX does not cost more in development than the APSC version, and twice the sensor size and 18% more is not worth a 2000$ price increase compared to the NEX-7 body. If a FF NEX body sells for 1600$, it’s well paid, and with a correct Zeiss 35/2.8 lens, at base, 2400$ is a fair price. 3000$ is robbery.

        • http://photorumors.com/ PhotoRumors

          The RX1 has a 35mm f/2 lens.

        • http://genotypewritings.blogspot.com/ genotypewriter

          Pretty much all lenses are made for the camera(s) they’re meant to go on. What’s special about the RX1 lens was its parameters were a bit different from the other lenses. Apart from that, it doesn’t cost them extra. If you look at any fixed-lens point and shoot, the lens sits extremely close to the sensor. And for Sony, this is nothing at all new:
          http://genotypewritings.blogspot.com/2012/09/sony-rx1-sony-r1-successor.html

          Also I don’t know if you’re new to this stuff but the prices of products are not based on the cost of the “ingredients”. Take a look at the price difference between the D800 and the D800E, for example.

          Yes, $3000 is very high for body only and we haven’t seen if this is true. Like I said in the other reply, I’m sure there’s more to the price than what’s floating around in the rumour sites.

          I think the body price will eventually come down to the $1600 that you mentioned but not immediately. That’s just too ideal and prices are never ideal at launch. On the other hand, if the body costs $1600, then paying $800 for a 35mm f/2.8 (for a $2400 kit) is very unreasonable. That lens is not worth more than $175-200 including the premium for the name.

          • fjfjjj

            “I don’t know if you’re new to this stuff but” = condescending

    • madmax

      People willing to pay $3000 for a P&S camera without viewfinder nor tiltable screen nor weather sealing is proven fact with the RX1. Consequently, Sony´s people think they can charge a plus now for human stupidity too.

      • Ludwig Gerhardt

        If the NEX FF is 3000$, I buy a used RX1, since you will get them for huge prices then. The NEX FF will probably not be weather sealed as well. Anywya, 3000$ is robbery

    • Cinekpol

      Compacts are (nearly) always cheaper than interchangable lens cameras with roughly equal features.

      • kassim

        Compact = miniaturization. Miniaturization always costs more.

        • http://genotypewritings.blogspot.com/ genotypewriter

          There are more factors… with a closed system, QC is relatively easier, no matter how fancy the device is. As soon as you make it modular, things that people bring from basically anywhere need to work fine or the camera body will be blamed, even if it’s a problem with the lenses.

          P&S lenses are extremely complex… some even have 24X constant f/2.8 zooms. Many are zooms starting at around f/1.8. And they all need to resolve a ton of detail to get the most out of tiny tiny sensors. But do you ever hear P&S users talking about AF calibration issues, mounts coming lose, scratched sensors, lens incompatibility issues? :)

    • MJr

      Guess that means it does have sensor-shift and IBIS. :D

      • http://genotypewritings.blogspot.com/ genotypewriter

        Fingers crossed

        • Zos Xavius

          indeed. it would make the package far more compelling.

  • Lee

    “…first modern full frame mirrorless camera (after the digital Leica M)” isn’t correct. You should remove either the parenthetical or the the word “modern.”

    • http://photorumors.com/ PhotoRumors

      Well, the new Leica M is kind of modern… it has focus peaking :)

      • Sahaja

        You can put an EVF on it too – which is pretty modern.

    • MJr

      You should realize the timeframe in this context of being the first, modern gets a very different meaning. In any case, the new M has more modern treats than you realize. It’s not Leica’s fault that all people care about these days is WiFi and touch-focus, however useful it may be.

  • dannybuoy

    The idea of a FF Sony used to interest me. But now I am more seasoned and sure about how I want to shoot. Having owned and NEX 5N, using my Leica glass and being frustrated with all the controls and having to find setting deep within menus I’d rather stick with my Leica M which I adore thankyouverymuch :-)

    • Sahaja

      Amongst othet things, this camera will need both proper manual controls and a good menu system for it to gain acceptance, and good reviews, from professional photographers.

      First impressions and reviews are important. Any shortcomings
      or faults found will get endlessly repeated all over the web.

      • MJr

        Could say the same thing about the RX1. Or really, about any camera. Even if it is a perfect match for a million people, there will always be shortcomings. No such thing as the perfect camera, all any manufacturer can do is manage the pros and cons as best they can for the intended target audience.

        • Sahaja

          Well if they do as well as they did with the RX1 (and have a built in viewfinder) it shouldn’t be too bad.

        • http://photorumors.com/ PhotoRumors

          I think many people who want a mirrorless full frame camera do not realize how big the lenses will be. Just take a look at the body/lens ratio of the RX1.

          • MJr

            Indeed, and that even has the advantage of the lens being built halfway into the body itself. But, it’s all relative, so while it may be a ‘shortcoming’ compared to other mirrorless camera’s, in the end it will be the very most lightweight way to use FF with interchangeable lenses (and AF). Luckily there will probably still be some advantages to lens design without that mirror to worry about

          • alex

            “a mirrorless full frame camera do not realize how big the lenses will be”

            How about the digital Leica M? They are mirrorless, fullframe, with “tiny” lenses….

        • Photo-Jack

          Exactly: the intended Target audience. And that is where some makers with a pro tradition took a different route, which have disappointed many existing customers.
          A fullformat mirrorless would be a second system to many rather than replacing their DSLRs. Thus if there won’t be a decisive weight and size advantage they could use their DSLR anyway. NEX unfortunately -like many other compact mirrorless- have far too many adjustment running via the menu instead of direct manual controls. That worked so far. But if it works with customers who are asked to lay out 3.000 bucks plus lenses is a differnet question.

  • 103David

    Love it, fantastic, a dream come true….
    And I’ve heard this before…
    Hope you can fix the piss- poor user interface…
    I’ll believe it when I hold one in my hands…
    Are you listening, Sony?
    Doubt it…

  • jk

    it is about 18percent bigger than the NEX7 and the lenses are quite big except the 35mmf2.8 and 55mm f1.8.
    we had meeting with Sony last week and they showed us expensive version of that camera , we asked its official name but Sony did not want to reveal it just yet.
    we will have another big meeting with Sony soon , and I am sure I will know it much better than I do it now.
    overall it is interesting, and small but the lenses (especially zooms) are just too big for the tiny body.
    I thought it might replace my Nikon , but it can’t , I think as you guys actually see it like some of us , you will be waking up to see the reality.
    after all,it is not a very practical system.
    Nikon , Canon or Sony A mount are far more practical camera system and the Leica M is and will always be the best of all when it comes to pure size and image quality.

    • http://photorumors.com/ PhotoRumors

      Please keep us updated, you can contact me here: http://photorumors.com/tips/

    • Zos Xavius

      First of all people are dreamers and think that you can make pancakes that are 25mm thin that zoom from 28mm-300mm with a constant f2. Just because you take the mirror out you don’t save that much typically. Even with reduced flange distance like leica you mention, telephotos and zooms still require lengthy barrels. Look at pentax and you’ll see a rather compact system that is designed with one of the longer flange distances out there. Even their FF primes are really compact. With cameras it depends on their ergonomics IMO. The ergonomics of the nex-7 aren’t great IMO, but not awful when paired with a prime. Clearly a FF nex is going to be similar if you feel that a zoom doesn’t match well. How a camera feels in your hand is probably the most important part IMO. I use a lot of vintage glass and it would all be too big to balance on a nex. On a tripod maybe it would be useful for landscapes, but even the old metal and glass primes would probably be front heavy in your hand. They need more substantial grips for starters. Also is there sensor based shake reduction? With a user selectable focal length and exif data? My guess is no because it would add thickness. A good mirrorless solution for full frame IMO would be something like a scaled up OM-D EM1. Ugly or not (I think it looks good) it looks like it will be comfortable to hold in your hand. A full frame x-pro would be interesting as well. Say what you will about fuji, but for the most part, their optics are usually very good.

    • Sahaja

      I don’t see this as a replacement for a Nikon or Canon DSLR for many people – but as a compliment to a DSLR it may be very good.

      IMO large zoom lenses probably don’t make sense on such a camera – but prime lenses (<135mm ) should.

  • vwking

    Not surprising. Since their success with the RX1 a full frame NEX is inevitable. With SONY’s excellent sensors and processing engine technologies, combined with Zeiss optics, looks like they will give their competition a run for the money. More choices for us. I’m OK with that.

  • whensly

    I hope Canon/Nikon/ Fuji/ Ricoh follow suit

  • Jeremiah

    Amazed at how much people know about this camera. Surely one one of these knowledgable photographers can give us some specs or a user review, pricing details???

  • Bill

    This is great. I’ll be happy long as I can get adapters to shoot my Leica M glass.

  • http://genotypewritings.blogspot.com/ genotypewriter

    I don’t know why people think it’s more practical to not have a real full-frame mirrorless camera than have one with expected pros and cons. Sure, it’s not going to be tiny like a RX1 and people aren’t going to give you credit for having more money than skill like when you carry a digital camera with a limited-use rangefinder, but this camera is real, it works and it will be comparable in quality to the best of FF digital SLRs give or take a little.

    So where’s the end of the world? Why are people talking as if Sony should yellow tape the revealing and abandon this entire project for ever? If these people are lenses, they’d be 50mm f/16.0001 and T16.0001… boring, unsophisticated, slow and completely transparent :)

  • Ludwig Gerhardt

    3000$ for what. The body alone or the body and the lens. Now, honnestly, in what is a NEX FF more difficult to realize and higher in value than an APSC camera, double size of sensor, 20% more body? This is again a ridiculour price policy. Then, why 35/2.8 and not 35/1.8, one more ridiculous step from Sony. Now, before we scream, let’s wait and see. 3 Grant is overpriced and the one who says it’s not, must be a fool.

    • http://genotypewritings.blogspot.com/ genotypewriter

      If you think about it, people rave about the ZA 24 1.8 for APS-C… what’s wrong with a smaller and higher quality ZA 35 2.8 that gives the same effect? Also, from the diagrams it’s clear that this lens is meant to be a compact option. If you need a very fast, high quality 35mm, try the 35 1.2 II Nokton. Manual focusing is not like in the days of SLRs anymore. With focus peaking and tilt/swivel screens, I’ve even done selfies with the 35 1.2 II Nokton and gotten perfect focus. Sony will eventually release a 35 f/1.4 or a 35 f/2 for FE. Until then, there are a ton of alternatives.

      I do agree that 3,000 is very expensive. But a lot of things are very expensive as they are announced and they come down in price. The a99 was announced at $2800 and has come down to as low as under $2300 in recent times. But with the FF Nex at $3000, I suspect it has in-body stablisation and/or some other features that Sony will try to say are “value added”.

      Let’ see…

      • fjfjjj

        “If you think about it” = condescending

  • TSY87

    I really REALLY hope this thing delivers… My biggest concern is the control layout. I never got fully comfortable with my nex-7. My fear is that sony likes to complicate things when all I really want are some solid MANUAL controls for SS, ISO, Aperture. I dont want to have to dig into varying levels of submenus to adjust iso or switch between auto-manual modes (aperture priority etc)

    • http://genotypewritings.blogspot.com/ genotypewriter

      I’m happy with the Nex 5 series and how bad is the Nex 7? There are two dials. A camera with a real bad layout is the $22,000 Leica S2… the buttons aren’t even marked, and you need to navigate deep in to the menus every time you need to change the ISO.

  • jake

    The next ten years of photography technology advancement should be quite intereatinf:-):-):-):-):-):-):-)

  • Curious DSLR user

    If it’s just a Nex-7 with a bigger sensor, it won’t be a very exciting camera.

    I feel the Nex line is just about OK, when it comes to important things like ergonomics, UI, accurate & fast auto-focus and reliability. The E-mount system lacks quality glass, outside the incredibly expensive Zeiss stuff and the occasional Sigma. If the camera finds a way of incorporating decent phase detection auto-focus for it’s native lenses and is easily adapted to old manual glass I could see it being a Leica alternative, even without an optical rangefinder.

    Right now I think Fuji is the only camera manufacturer making a decent attempt at mirrorless cameras that rival traditional DSLR performance. Even if again their auto-focus is a little weak in comparison. I don’t necessarily want to see a full frame Fuji X series (I don’t think that is even possible), but I would love to see a Fuji X series camera with a combination of rugged weather sealing and maybe other little tweaks to make them a viable alternative to a bulkier DSLR.

    I’ll happily use my full frame DLSR while it remains more flexible and reliable then alternative mirrorless systems. I can live with an extra few grams of weight and cm of girth.

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