Red Scarlet "brain only" will cost you $7000 - read all other details at reduser.net (too much to mention all here):
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21 Comments
Gasp, well the S35 is $7000, the 2/3 model is a more reasonable $2750 body only, $4750 pimped out. Wonder if any of the Big Boys will have anything of comparable quality by next summer?
to say that it is comparable we must first see IQ , and if you don’t care for video what can you do with that ? and it is so ugly
I wonder how am I suppose to hold such weird black box with a lens… not only it’s expensive but also uncomfortable.
this is only a part of what you’ll be holding, they have shoulder rigs for movie shooting and even an SLR-like hand grip suitable for when you want to do still photography . see the 3rd and 4th photos in this link:
reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37011&page=3
this is actually the nice thing about their system, that thanks to modularity, you can choose the components that suits you best when you buy and have interchangeable ones for use in different situations.
yp – I’ve seen this and I still think it won’t be comfortable. instead of back box you have white box with a grip resembling lego bricks. I’m very very far from excitement many people show to scarlet system.
it has to be like lego to allow for countless permutations of interchangeable components and because of that the body parts are not unified in one unit. possibly also RED is not paying much attention to the style and look of their gear. I was initially interested but when I started to calculate the total price of a working system, was completely turned me off. They should make a basic package that has all the essentials out of the box, if they want to have a market beyond the pro’s and well-to-do’s.
Some day they will figure out the aesthetics. But right now their base seems to be engineering type thinkers. People who actually like legos (hell, they may have even made a camera out of legos when they were kids, lol).
But people are hitting the nail on the head at some point, if this kind of a concept is going to go mainstream, aesthetics and FORM in particular must be made a priority. This is an art industry.
Then again, to each their own and more luck to all of them. I personally like what they are doing and it seems to me the pressure is positive and creative and moves to logical conclusions.
why they should want market “beyond the pro’s and well-to-do’s.” ?
if people are able to pay 7k for leica why not for this what actually works without if and whens for what it is intended?
aesthetically, it looks like old 110/220V transformers. and for RichT: don’t forget that this price is for the brain (sensor unit) only, so you still need lens(es), LCD and/or EVF, rig(s), REDmote (remote control)…etc, these things cost a lot (four digits are normal for a single accessory, one of their EVF’s costs 3000 or 4000$), so for a tiny 2/3″ sensor, your whole system will cost you 5000-10000$, no matter how interesting their features are, they cannot change the laws of physics with regard to what image quality you can get from such a tiny sensor. GH1 or 5DII makes a lot more sense.
Put this way, I see confirmed my doubts abou the whole Red concept. Are we sure it makes sense even for video pros?
The Pro’s can rent rather than buy and are more likely to use the higher-end Epic which comes in multiple formats all of which much larger than 2/3″, even low-end Scarlet is only 2/3″ in its most cheap options.
Hmm, I’m pretty sure the $4750 price was for pretty much a turnkey outfit: lens, battery/charger, “redmote”, and 2.8″ touchscreen LCD. I was under the impression you just have to pop a CF card in and figure out a way to carry/mount it.
RED is quite good at publicity but there are also other cameras that are worth looking at as an insight to the future, such as the very available Elphel or the upcoming Ikonoskop A-cam, which, though pricey, is actually far enough along to have real sample footage. The Ikon uses a 2/3″ Kodak CCD sensor which is apparently not THAT expensive (about $300 a pop according to Elphel’s website). While Elphel’s current image quality with its tiny sensor isn’t overwhelming the Kodak sensor used in the Ikon has promise
There is indeed a 4750$ package which includes a Scarlet 2/3″ brain with a fixed 8x zoom, touchscreen, remote, battery and charger, it is not clear whether or not there is a kind of rig or hand grip included in that package, also RED users need a “special external unit” for recording/processing their giga size hi resolution RAW video, not clear either whether that is covered in the 4750$ package or not, CF cards are not ideal with RED and they can only use the best ultra fast ones of them.
there is also a 2/3″ Scarlet that takes interchangeable lenses (has a special REDmini mount and lenses), the brain only price for that Scarlet is 2750$.
To note also, is that all these prices can change between now and the time of release, RED officially says that schedules & prices of future products are subject to change. the price of the fixed lens Scarlet 2/3″ was initially meant to be 3000$ (that was one year ago or so, now they added some features and say it’s gonna be 4750$ ). Compared to the Canon 7D, you will get a sensor 5.5 times the area of the 2/3″, much higher res for stills (18MP vs 5MP) but lower res and frame rate in video (7D 1.92K @ 50 or 60fps, scarlet 3K @ 120fps), lens options will be generally better with 7D. price-wise 7D+ a nice lens will cost you less than half RED’s 4750$ price.
Scarlett 2/3″ point 21. Something very interesting goes here…
Haha, for that price you even get funny remarks
For those of you complaining about the ergonomics you’ve probably missed the point completely.
As a Hasselblad user I often thought before I ever used one that it would be ineffective and uncomfortable.
When I got mine I changed my mind in a nano-second.
Wait to use a RED before you condemn it on an ergonomic basis!
You are probably right. Still, the Hasselblad had, and still has, an edge derived both from the lenses, AND from the format. In film times the difference between 135 and 120 film (esp. for 6×6 negs or more) was considerable. Now it is a bit less, as sensors are progressing way faster than old chemistry was, and usually innovations are implemented in low format first (and I am quite surprised that with top FF Nikons and Canons you can use iso settings unthinkable in film times and in current mf lines, including Hassies).
But if I understood correctly, we are talking now about a module which hosts a 2/3” sensor, so not that large, but costing as much as a digital mf camera.
So yes, a Canikon would be more reasonable for that price/quality ratio…
the image quality and ISO capabilities of current medium format is not representative of the real potential of the format. If one day Canon or Sony start making MF sensors, we will see much more of that potential. The problem is that the quality is already good with APS-C, excellent with FF, so only the very critical (and deep pocketed) pro’s go for MF, it hasn’t and im afraid will never build momentum (always a small volume).
About the Scarlet 2/3″ it is indeed a small sensor, about 10x5mm, 3072x1620pxl, when we compare Scarlet with GH1, 5DII or 7D we need to remember that Scarlet takes video in 3072×1620 @ 120 fps (in RAW) while they shoot movies of 1920×1080 @ 30 or max 60fps (NOT in raw), also RED cameras are modular while the other cameras above have only interchangeable bodies and lenses to choose from. however if what you liked in Scarlet is the video, casio has affordable consumer compacts that shoot hi res hi fps videos (but no RAW video). And if what you want is modularity, some medium format cameras may have more modularity than just interchangeable bodies and lenses.
you can see the scarlet 2/3″ with the fixed lens (8x zoom) next to Nikon D3 (size comparison) in the link below:
reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=517263&postcount=19
Thanx for the link. I thought that the Scarlet would be bigger. It is not that bad, then. And yes, you are right that for video there is no match from the “normal” cameras, yet. Yet. Because I am preatty sure Sony will start to implement high quality video capture at maximum in 2011. True it is that modularity is a plus that does not involve low format cameras. But you are definitely paying a price for it, with Scarlet.
About medium format: again yes, its potentiality is umatched by low format systems (as large format is unmatched by medium format), but so far that potentiality has remained theoretical. A square hassie neg (56×56) had almost 3 times the area of a normal 35mm pic (36×24). With the same film that meant that all values were much higher (not only resolution, but also DR, etc.); while iso capacities were selected through the film (a Velvia 50 iso would be 50 iso also in mf, and the same for a kodak B&W 640 iso, etc.). This meant that you did not have to chose between resolution + DR vs. Iso capacities (let’s not talk about portability, speed, etc.). This is what you face now, in digital times, where the Nikon D3s has the edge in high iso department, although its sensor size is the half than the sensor of digital mf systems. And the difference between a 24 mp FF camera and a 50 mp mf system is less consistent than the equivalent in film days, if not for DR (which is important, though, but only with the right lenses and post-processing).
So all in all I am a bit skeptical of these super systems, nowadays. With the new jump in mp promised by Sony (with its coming soon 34 mp sensor) and Canon (rumors of another 34mp or similar sensor), medium format backs and systems should sport 100mp circa in order to mantain the difference on par with film days. I do not see it coming soon. And I still can’t understand why so many 20.000 dollars or so cameras can’t go beyond 800, or 1600 iso settings…
I suspect that the Scarlet shown in that photo is not a complete setup just brain + the fixed lens and maybe the barttery and control unit are attached to the back of the body (not visible in the photo), it doesn’t look like there is even the smallest grip with which you can hold the camera, let alone a sholder rig which video shooters consider a necessity. We for sure don’t see a matte box (huge lens hood often used in video cams), if we add these things you will again get that multi-part form factor (reminiscent of international space station, LOL). I remeber seeing the brains only of Scarlet and Epic and the latter being only marginally larger. The lenses for a 2/3″ would definitely be smaller and lighter. The same story as fuji S100 vs any DSLR (from 4/3 to FF).
Its clear the readers of this blog are stills-oriented — for film-style acquisition, its a perfect design. Ever put a Panavision GII on your shoulder? Or even an SR3? This is a God-send of handheld work. Not to mention the capability to capture such high-data-rate images at 72 fps burst… and the pro models will go up to 100 fps at full resolution! For the film-maker, this is revolutionary.
You are right about me: I am stills-oriented. I guess I should consider this beast from a different (wide) angle