Leaked Pentax document indicates that there may not be a second mirrorless camera

By PR admin | Published: June 29, 2011

This upside down PDF document contains Q&A on the freshly released Pentax Q camera. Some of the answers indicate that there may not be a second mirrorless camera from Pentax this summer. I did express this concern in previous posts - the Pentax NC-1 and Pentax Q were probably different names for the same camera. Here is the Q&A recap from Ricehigh:

A1: "Q" stands for Queen and Quality;

A11: Body is made in Philippines, "High Performance" lenses are in Vietnam whereas the "Toy" lenses are made in Thailand.

A17: The flange focal length is 9.2mm.

A20: A brand new image processing engine is used. It is NOT a PRIME!

A21: The Q has no AA filter.

A26: There is no PEF (compressed Pentax RAW) file format supported.

A29: Whether AF is available/works under video recording mode is uncertain.

A31: The number of segments for multi-segment metering mode exposure calculation is unknown.

A34: There is only 1EV exposure compensation allowed.

A43: Number of lens aperture blades for the "high performance" lenses is 5.

A49: The size of image circle of the Q lenses cannot be told.

A52: New Q lenses are engineered by Pentax solely.

A55: There is no plan to release a K-mount mirrorless. Concentration and efforts of development will only be put into the existing three lineups, i.e., K-mount APS-C DSLRs, the 645D and the Q system.

A56: There is no plan for Full Frame camera in the foreseeable future.

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What’s a Pentax?

Pentax: Hopeless Since 1975!
- pragmatist
  
  Ah, you can always find some good trolling on rumor sites.
  
  @Peter – the K-5 was well received (I don’t own one), as was the K-r. The 645D is fantastic, but it’s not all they do well.
  
  @WT21 – I used to hold out for full frame until I realised I was living in the past. “Full frame” is meaningless now, it’s just one of many different frame sizes.
  - What’s a Pentax?
    
    @ Pragmatist (Ned?)
    
    Perhaps Pentax is living in the past, the market has come around again to Full Frame. APS-C doesn’t cut it for everyone. Sony is bringing out a number of new Full Frame models in the next 6-12 months. So are Canon and Nikon. Even Samsung is working in a 36×36 sensor.
    
    Maybe that’s why Pentax is down to 1.5% market share. Always a day late and a dollar short, since they decided to compete on the cheap in 1975. I thought Hoya would help Pentax. It looks like Hoya just raised prices and cut quality on already dated goods.
    - What’s a Pentax?
      
      P.S.
      
      Canon is said to be working on a Full Frame Rebel. Nikon is rumored to be working on an inexpensive Full Frame (around $1,000) for 2012.
      
      Can Pentax Q really compete in the same price category?
      
      Sad.
      - Alex
        
        FYI it’s ridiculous to say the Q must compete with a small format DSLR. Even if the Q is a real product, and your 1000$ “Full frame” DSLRs are just wet dreams.
      - Craig
        
        Source(s) please.
      - pragmatist
        
        That’s a ridiculous statement. There are sports cars the same price as a Mercedes S-Class, but they don’t aim to compete. I’ll be the first to admit 800 bucks for the Q would be crazy, but you can’t fit a 35mm format dslr in your jacket pocket. The only reason I would want a bigger sensor is greater DoF control, which is the main area I think the Q could fail.
    - Ken Elliott
      
      Perhaps a bit of Pentax history will help you understand them.
      
      For a long time, Pentax has considered 35mm cameras as consumer cameras, and medium format as “professional”. With this in mind, it would likely be a waste of money for them to develop a “full frame” (AKA 135 or FX) camera, when they have a much larger professional camera available – the 645.
      
      Nikon and Canon are beginning to approach the limits of what you can get from a 135 full frame sensor. Pentax has avoided that roadblock, and is in a market where a US$10,000 camera is considered affordable. And they took advantage of some of the electronics developed for their APS-C bodies.
      
      I don’t own any Pentax products – I’m a pro Nikon shooter – but that Pentax 645 has me thinking hard.
      - What’s a Pentax?
        
        @ Ken Elliot
        
        Your comment has deeply flawed reasoning, especially to someone who shot Medium Format for many years and currently owns a Full Frame System (D700). I also use an APS-C Mirrorless for some of the legacy glass I have.
        
        “For a long time, Pentax has considered 35mm cameras as consumer cameras, and medium format as “professional”. With this in mind, it would likely be a waste of money for them to develop a “full frame” (AKA 135 or FX) camera, when they have a much larger professional camera available – the 645.”
        
        It’s not about professional or consumer. The K mount is a Full Frame (35mm) mount. APS-C was originally a compromised format because of the expense of the sensors. That is changing now. How is Pentax adapting to the new market conditions? By releasing the Q? Sad!
        
        “Nikon and Canon are beginning to approach the limits of what you can get from a 135 full frame sensor.”
        
        Canon is on its second generation of Full Frame, Nikon is mostly on its first. How can the two companies have reached the limits of the format so early on? Good 35mm lenses outresolve most Medium Format lenses. That’s been shown in numerous articles.
        
        Where Medium Format shines is that it has a larger surface area. Whenever you increase the size of the sensor or film you will get better tonal ranges and detail. The same can be said for Full Frame vs. APS-C. Full Frame outperforms APS-C. I know, I have a D700 and I have friends with Canon 5D’s and 5D MKII’s. Since higher resolution 35mm sensors (30MP+) are about to hit the market in the next generation of cameras, it will be a close call.
        
        35mm lenses with better resolve and Full Frame cameras with more detailed sensors versus the size of Medium Format. Hasselbald is introducing the 200MP H4D-200M that has more pixel density and should be able to keep the edge on performance. That’s Hasselblad, not Pentax. Pentax is using a smaller than MF 40MP sensor and the underwhelming 55mm Pentax kit lens is prone to CA fringing.
        
        Quit drinking the Pentax Kool-Aid. At 1.5% market share it hasn’t done much good for them and it’s not going to help you.
  - http://www.flickr.com/genotypewriter genotypewriter
    
    I used to hold out for full frame until I realised I was living in the past. “Full frame” is meaningless now, it’s just one of many different frame sizes.
    
    So what did you do? Give up?
thommyorkk

i can only imagine that pentax has seen a market for this outside of north america and europe. on several western forums, this new Q system has been almost universally bashed (well, the concept of it, anyway).

can some of our asian friends chime in and tell us if the Q system has a waiting market in the far east?
- Mooboy
  
  I’m guessing the target market isn’t Asia, but all the people who don’t frequent photography forums and have no concept that sensor size impacts on image quality.
  
  I’m guessing that’s a pretty big market.
  - hiplnsdrftr
    
    That’s, exactly the the target market. People that don’t understand.
    - thommyorkk
      
      i can see your points – it might possibly sell (even if not “well” @ $800) on quirk-factor alone. maybe the Q is for “quirky”?
    - CJ
      
      My girl takes great shots, but she doesn’t know WTF is inside the camera. She might not understand, but she have something that you can’t buy with a camera, to instinctively know how light works, how it reflects on surfaces, and how to frame all of that.
      She have talent. (she also is a fashion designer)
Camaman

Why are those lenses so big? Other than to be able to hold them!
Their image circle on them must be big!
Peter

Pentax just stick to medium format… it’s the only thing you know how to do properly.
- Alex
  
  Except for several APS-C DSLRs and lots of wonderful K-mount lenses, that is.
  - http://www.flickr.com/genotypewriter genotypewriter
    
    I haven’t got much against Pentax but I wouldn’t call their K mount lenses “wonderful”… some of the notable ones I’ve used include the FA 77 1.8 Limited, DA* 200 2.8, DA 43 f/1.9, DA 40 2.8, etc. they’re all CA-ridden and sub-par compared to the rest. What are you comparing against?
    
    The only thing going for them is their good external build, compactness and nice appearance. But internally, the optics are average at best and we all know about the Sudden Death Motor.
MK

ye shall burn in the depths of hades for doubting the Q system, brought forth for mortals to behold the splendor of a 1/2.3″ sensor and forever changing the earth. praise be to pentax. no words must be spoken at least 3 seconds, out of respect, after pronouncing our saviors name, pentax q.
- Alex
  
  Bad attempt at trolling; it’s obvious who the fanatics are.
WT21

No Full frame, and only the Q mirrorless? Hoping to be a (return) customer to Pentax, but I guess not. Still loving my ME Super, though.
Les

Are people really disappointed that Pentax won’t be releasing a “me-too” mirrorless APS/C system?
There are already three established alternatives on the market, M4/3, Sony and Samsung.
It’s not like the car business where every firm needs to offer a mid-size sedan!

I really like Pentax’s idea of making a really tiny system, and I am sure that image quality will be outstanding for 95% of customers. The other 5% will complain, but they already know that they can buy a bigger, heavier product elsewhere, so who cares?

It’s not like you really need ISO 100,000, 10fps and 2.8/400mm lenses to take pictures.
- Nathan
  
  Don’t forget that not only does the Q system have a MUCH smaller sensor, but it’s more expensive than the Olympus E-PL2, Samsung NX, and Sony NEX mirrorless cameras.
  It’s a failure in its primary mission: to produce good value for the money.
  
  That’s every product’s primary mission. Even Leica’s. To a Leica customer, the M9 has excellent value for the money. To the Olympus customer, the E-PL2 has excellent value. Unfortunately, Pentax has alighted on a proposed product that is not so small that it radically changes the mirrorless camera’s scale, but also provides an inferior range of creativity to the very enthusiasts they’re hoping to sell to.
  
  Sure, the consumer knows they can get a better camera, but I’m not as sure that it’ll have to be significantly bigger or heavier. The problem we’re seeing here is that this Pentax system doesn’t really offer anything new to the creative photographer. If they had chosen even a 1/1.6″ sensor, it would be different, but this sensor is much smaller even than that. It’s in the low-end point and shoot category, but costs 700 dollars. If that proposition doesn’t give you fits, it’s probably because either money is no object to you or you don’t care whether it sells.
  - Alex
    
    To a Pentax Q customer, the Q has excellent value for the money – I’m just using your own logic, which makes the actual price and performance irrelevant.
    - http://www.flickr.com/genotypewriter genotypewriter
      
      There are no Pentax Q customers yet. Why would anyone go and invest in this brandnew system when it has little if any value over the rest?
    - Nathan
      
      I think you missed the mark. Leica has a market because they provide a full frame camera in a small size with fast glass, ideal for street photography and travel photography.
      Micro Four Thirds provides a small camera with near SLR quality and many very good lenses.
      An SLR gives uncompromised performance at the penalty of cost and size/weight.
      A compact has the advantages of size and cost at the expense of image quality.
      
      All of these have value to a consumer. How does a tiny-sensor compact interchangeable lens camera for 800 dollars have value to a consumer? It has to provide X feature at Y cost. Leica has value only because nobody else provides that quality at that size. MFT has value because nobody else has that versatility at that cost and size. SLR has value because no other solution has that image quality and versatility.
      Q doesn’t fit in. It has no value.
  - Les
    
    The primary mission is to return a profit to shareholders, either directly through sales, or indirectly through added brand value. That second type of profit may not seem like much, but just consider that 99% of Canon/Nikon sales are low-end undifferentiated “anycams”, but the brands are still best known for their “Pro” products.
    
    The fact is, if I want a digital camera that smaller than a credit card and has interchangeable lenses, there’s the Pentax and nothing else. Maybe I can get an Olympus for less money, but the Olympus is bigger, and I don’t feel like carrying it around all day. I want something that I won’t notice most of the time, like a mobile phone, not something that constantly gets in the way.
Zanzibar

Of course this is the only mirrorless cam from Pentax… and it isn’t even from Pentax! It’s based on this Kenko design:

http://photorumors.com/2011/01/31/kenko-to-unveil-their-interchangeable-lenses-digital-camera-tomorrow-c-mount/

Kenko merged officially with Tokina last week, but they’ve been known as Kenko-Tokina in Asia for years. Hoya controls those companies as well as Pentax, and it’s well known that Hoya is forcing cost and r&d reductions on Pentax. So Pentax took (or was forced to take) technology from Kenko, adapt it and put their name on it.

And now it seems like they don’t have the funding to do a ‘real’ consumer or high-end mirrorless camera. Goodbye Pentax. You’re becoming the next Vivitar.
- Alex
  
  Baseless speculation – and in fact untrue. The Q is a Pentax project, started some 5 years ago.
  Please check your guesswork before posting it as “facts”.
  - Zanzibar
    
    Same tech, same mount … same camera.
    
    Reasonable speculation: Hoya (which ordered cutbacks to Pentax’s spending after they bought the company) doesn’t want to pay for an expensive foray with a custom mount so they ordered Pentax to take the C-mount design their other subsidiary created and go with a ‘common’ mount.
    
    Just because Pentax claimed that they’ve been working on a mirrorless camera for 5 years doesn’t mean it’s this exact one with this exact mount. No, they bought the best cheap, tiny, off-the-shelf sensor they could from Sony and plopped it into a C-mount-based camera. Then they overpriced it!
    - Alex
      
      Wrong. Absolutely wrong.
      Pentax Q has a new, fully electric mount, not the C mount. WTH, the Q mount is a bayonet, while C-mount being a threaded mount.
      Same tech – wrong, again; the Q is very much different than the rumored Kenko.
      
      Check at least such basic things before posting!
- http://twitter.com/#!/57thStIncident 57thStIncident
  
  It doesn’t look like Pentax Q has all that much in common with that Kenko…which frankly didn’t look very polished just a few months ago. The Q must have been further along than that at that point in time. I understand why there were some rumblings about this before its announcement but now that we see it, I don’t know why anyone would still think this is the case.
  - http://photorumors.com PR admin
    
    the PDF file is still there: http://www.mediafire.com/?n2g110hucuorre1
http://tumbleweed-092.livejournal.com/ Slow Gin

Die, Pentax. We can’t look at this agony.
- Alex
  
  Pentax is supposedly dying since ’90s… I hope the long wait won’t bother you.
- http://twitter.com/#!/57thStIncident 57thStIncident
  
  Reading between the lines you must have lost a close relative to a terrible, terrible K1000 accident.
MO

Die Pentax? Go to DXO website and look at top 10 cameras.Pentax has 2 goos spot on that list. Q wil rock the market.
- Alex
  
  Wrong again – do I spot a trend here?
  The 1.5% market share refers to the global camera market – non interchangeable lens cameras included. This is absolutely clear, as there are shown brands with no interchangeable lens cameras in their portfolios.
  
  Now I’m sure you’re just brand-bashing, as you managed to get very basic, easily verifiable stuff wrong.
- http://tumbleweed-092.livejournal.com/ Slow Gin
  
  No, it won’t. For the price of good DSLR no one will buy their ultra-pocketable Q camera. And without FF Pentax will just not survive. It covers consumer market with APS-C but pros or serious hobbyists have choice of only three ways. Or even just two, because Sony’s lens park is more thiner than CaNikon’s.
  - Sky
    
    It’s 3 choices – Sony has more lenses to offer than Pentax do plus: you keep the in-body stabilization which is a huge advantage for ex-Pentaxians (if such word exists) over Canikon camp.
    
    Most of people I know that left Pentax moved to Sony, which is quite obvious choice all things considered.
Rabot

If the image quality, the handing and body quality is good. AND THE SIZE.

Then why not…
http://www.jsvfoto.com jsv

“Nikon is rumored to be working on an inexpensive Full Frame (around $1,000) for 2012.”

Where’s the source of that rumor?
http://twitter.com/#!/57thStIncident 57thStIncident

The ‘upside-down PDF’ doesn’t appear to be available at this time so I don’t know whether there was more than what was posted here and on RH’s blog.

Most of this seems pretty unimportant.

A21: The Q has no AA filter.

Interesting, don’t know how much difference this will or won’t make.

A26: There is no PEF (compressed Pentax RAW) file format supported.

DNG support is pretty common now, don’t see why anyone would miss PEF which existing converters would probably need updates to handle the Q anyway.

A29: Whether AF is available/works under video recording mode is uncertain.

A31: The number of segments for multi-segment metering mode exposure calculation is unknown.

Non-statements. I have other questions that probably won’t be answered until user manuals and review units become available.

A34: There is only 1EV exposure compensation allowed.

Color me skeptical on this.

A43: Number of lens aperture blades for the “high performance” lenses is 5.

OK. So what? I can only imagine that this was listed here because somebody thinks this is insufficient for a lens to be good.

A55: There is no plan to release a K-mount mirrorless. Concentration and efforts of development will only be put into the existing three lineups, i.e., K-mount APS-C DSLRs, the 645D and the Q system.

A56: There is no plan for Full Frame camera in the foreseeable future.

Even if this document is actually from someone associated with Pentax, I would expect that as always their future product plans would be closely guarded and that they would not reveal as-of-yet unannounced plans in a Q marketing FAQ (maybe that’s what this is?).

Not that I don’t think that this last two items might be true…my predictions:
5% – chance we’ll see a 24×36 Pentax in the next three years
35% – chance we’ll see a mirrorless APS-C Pentax in 2011
60% – chance we’ll see a mirrorless APS-C Pentax in 2012
70% – chance Pentax-Q will last long enough to have a successor or introduce lenses beyond what’s already been announced
90% – chance that a troll will post a snarky response to my comments.
- http://twitter.com/#!/57thStIncident 57thStIncident
  
  Sorry, tried to use the HTML q tag for the quotes but it doesn’t appear to render as I’d expected, and this site has no preview or ability to edit past comments.
B0b

Actually waiting on this and the supposed NC with my (70+) Dad, who was a big fan of the Auto 110 back in the day for its pocket-ability and flexibility… but not for its image quality (shot ektachrome… so you can see why). So when this showed up at (about) the same price as his D90 with an even smaller “sensor” than the old 110 film, he was hoping the rumors of a coming APS-C version were true – wanted to finally get that Auto 110 convenience with better “guts”. Guess that’s a big Nope now. Of course that NC woulda probably been a couple grand…
JumpshotJR

So no Fuji X100 competition? Boo this company!

Glad I’m not heavily invested in their system. All I have is a K-x and a $40 50mm 1.7 prime lens from the 70s, which are both awesome by the way.
http://photoartbymark.zenfolio.com photoartbymark

stick with your K-1000 the best camera you ever made
42PL

I’m still in disbelief that Pentax has released this camera. I don’t see how anyone can think it will be a success in the North American market. If it’s designed for the Japanese market and maybe other Asian countries- okay. I don’t get the mindset that would want to pay a premium for this camera but okay, that’s fine. A camera like the Olympus XZ1 is far cheaper, has a much better and more capable lens, is just as small, and has a bigger sensor. I just don’t see how this camera is not gonna be a failure. At the price they’re asking for it I don’t see this being targeted to know nothing photographers. And any photographer who is aware of what’s out there will not choose this. Maybe some will. But not many. Such an awful, overpriced camera.
- http://twitter.com/#!/57thStIncident 57thStIncident
  
  “A camera like the Olympus XZ1 is far cheaper, has a much better and more capable lens, is just as small, and has a bigger sensor.”
  
  Cheaper, bigger sensor: no doubt.
  
  More capable lens: If by that you mean zoom range, OK.
  
  Much better lens: How could you possibly know this? Does it even seem likely that a zoom, built to be extra compact, fast, and be sold at a lower price will be ‘much better’ than a prime (or a zoom with more modest specs)?
  
  Not to say that the Q doesn’t have a tough row to hoe, because it does.
1pt4

This camera just stinks of bomb all over it. It’s got hardly any advantages over a S95 or G12 (the G12 at least has a finder!) and costs twice as much.

The toy lenses are key to Pentax’s hopes for this camera. It’s a frilly, unserious, yet overly expensive camera for what you get. It’s perfect for Japanese girls with too much money who want something unique to put in their mini purses but there is no serious need for such a camera at the price it’s at. (Drop it to $500 with basic lens and it becomes a fair competitor to the G12 and LX5, otherwise not.)

For $100 more than a Q camera you could get an 18MP Canon 600D with 18-55 & 55-250 kit lenses @ amazon today and get far better image quality and low light images and cropping ability and video quality.
http://twitter.com/#!/57thStIncident 57thStIncident

“A34: There is only 1EV exposure compensation allowed.”

If you read the PDF, it’s not regular exposure compensation this refers to–it’s the spread for its in-camera HDR mode.
http://www.flickr.com/genotypewriter genotypewriter

A43: Number of lens aperture blades for the “high performance” lenses is 5.

Like you’re ever going to see shallow DOF with this thing except maybe when shooting close-ups of flowers with Tokyo in the background.
kick and ouch

rip pentax
http://www.digitalincense.com daniel

with Q, Pentax has 3 mounts to “feed”. IMHO, i don’t think that Pentax can sustain 4 mounts.

They barely released a couple of lenses for K mount, and most of them are re-done with WR or cheap lenses.

Q will be successful? who cares? do you buy a camera based on hype or performance?
Alex

There is nothing “sub-par”‘ nor ”average” about my DA 70mm and DA 35mm Limiteds, nor about my DA* 60-250. Very good optics for the zoom, it’s sharp wide-open with no CA issues; the Limiteds are truly excellent.
- http://www.flickr.com/genotypewriter genotypewriter
  
  Very good optics for the zoom, it’s sharp wide-open with no CA issues; the Limiteds are truly excellent.
  
  You obviously don’t know what “no CA” and “sharp wide open” means or what an “excellent” lens is.
  
  Seriously… which lenses are you comparing yours against? Pentax’s own cheaper models? Take a look here to see the lenses I’ve used:
  http://www.flickr.com/people/genotypewriter/
  
  To me Pentax lenses are average at best. To me their only appeal is their nice finish and small size, which is hard to come across thesedays in modern Japanese lenses and I wish Canon, Nikon and Sony took note.
  - Alex
    
    From your flickr profile I see you don’t own those lenses, and have never used them – yet you’re telling me they’re “average at best”?
    They stand up very well to pixel peeping even on high resolution cameras like the K-5. But I guess you have to “justify” somehow your very expensive Ls :p
http://twitter.com/#!/ZDP189 ZDP-189

Why is this thread all about each other person’s supposed inadequacies? This is meant to be a camera rumour website, not an intellectual dominance display.

As for the cameras, Peter, thank you for the bang up to date new info. It’s nice to know, especially since it seems Pentax is joining my favourite camera company.

Leaked Pentax document indicates that there may not be a second mirrorless camera

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